15 Oct 2014 15:41:43
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29624410

Good story about Dortmund. One club keeping fans first

{Ed007's Note - I've been banging on about the German set-up especially Dortmund for years, it's not just Dortmund though, an adult season ticket for Bayern Munich costs £109.65, it went up from £104 this season and £67 for disabled supporters, ST holders also get priority when booking tickets for home and away matches, with a small discount on the ticket price, and a subscription to the matchday programme and I'm sure you get a free travel pass for the local area on matchdays too.
Imagine the chaos when their fans found out they were being charged £132 per ticket at Arsenal for a CL tie, so Bayern stumped up and subsidised the fans.
I've been over to watch Dortmund and St Pauli a few times over the years, I'd recommend it to anyone who gets the chance, going to Hamburg for a St Pauli match is a great lads weekend away. To me the Bundesliga has been the top league in Europe for quite some time, La Liga lacks strength in depth from a neutral point, it's only Sly and the media over here who says it's the EPL.}

1.) 15 Oct 2014
I wonder would the Board have season tickets at less than £200 if they could .
However I suspect that our meagre TV deal makes that impossible .
We could be destroyed if the Epl teams with their massive TV deal reduced their season tickets to about £150 which would be a reasonable amount with the TV money they get

{Ed007's Note - The Bundesliga is the only 'big five league' where income from TV revenue is not their largest revenue source. England receives 1.94bn Euros from TV and Germany receive 594m Euros.}

2.) 15 Oct 2014
Good question from Chris, if our board could have a pricing structure like the German clubs do you think they actually would? Or sadly is it a total dreamland situation? Ed was it easy enough to get tickets when you went over? I would be right up for a lads weekend away to the football

{Ed007's Note - It was easy enough as I know people over there but if you contact the clubs they would be happy to help, there will probably companies that do organised trips including travel, tickets and accommodation. But you're better planning it yourself, you'll get tickets no bother and some cheap flights

www.bvb.de/Tickets/Ticketshop/

If you want to go to St Pauli you can buy tickets on the day of the game

www.fcstpauli.com/en/tickets/ticketcentre

or contact folk through here

www.stpaulifansuk.forumup.co.uk

or even here

www.yorkshirestpauli.com/

Go for it mate, you'll love it, the cultural experience of visiting The Reeperbahn is worth the trip itself.}

3.) 15 Oct 2014
15 Oct 2014 21:49:03
Ed didn't know you were at St Pauli games. If you want a great one go to the pre season games against Celtic when the Wakes are playing after the game. Brilliant band, great weekend, great supporters.

{Ed007's Note - I've not been for a while but I went over 2/3 times a year, I first went over in the 90s with lads from the Not the View (might have been TAL) fanzine, basically I just went for a pi$$-up, but ended up having such a good time I ended up staying on an extra 2 days and flying home by myself like a right pikey! I bought myself a new rigout and just binned everything except my wallet and passport and that's how I turned up for my flight, I hadn't even shaved for days and had got washed in a strip clubs toilet where I dumped all my clothes and overnight bag with my BO spray and that.
I've still got a few friends in the support but like me age has caught up with them and they've calmed down. The first time I heard the AC/DC tune there I thought wtf was going on here and then they scored, Blur's Song 2 started blasting out and the place went absolutely crazy! I'm good friends with An Spiorad and there's talk of them heading over to do a few shows at some point, I might tag along as a roadie lol.}

4.) 15 Oct 2014
Cheers ed

{Ed007's Note - Not a problem. (yes)

5.) 15 Oct 2014
Ed, do the German clubs get very big money from sponsorship, or how do they make up from the "small ticket amounts " and only average tv money

{Ed007's Note - Yeah, Chris, most of their money comes from their commercial income. I'm using my tablet just now but I'll dig up some facts and stats for you tomorrow when I'm on a computer. German teams pay circa 50% of their revenue on wages and in the EPL it is around 70%, I do know that off the top of my head (cue someone looks it up and proves me wrong lol) When you read up on the Bundesliga you'll realise how much of a mess the EPL is in and it's only getting worse year by year, that's why I hate CFC fans comparing us to teams/finances down there, it's not a fair comparison. English teams owners are jealous of the smooth way German clubs are run apart from the 50+1 rule which means all clubs in Germany must be 51% owned by fans.

6.) 16 Oct 2014
Got to agree with 007, the Bundesliga has been my favourite league for several years now. Been to St. Pauli myself, Dortmund and Hertha too. The tickets are remarkably cheap. Plus, and I know it's different cultures etc, but when people can be trusted to behave whilst standing and drinking, it really does create a concert like atmosphere. St. Pauli and Dortmund most notably.

As for the footy, Klopp is my man-crush. He is a coach whos model should be copied. 4-2-3-1, my favourite shape, is kept, or adjusted slightly to 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2. The passing philosophy and defensive roles stay the same, it's just the intensity as to which they are applied that changes, the "gegenpressing". Basically, every game, the team know what they have to do through well rehearsed routines and highly organised tactical training to win the ball back, as a team, and attack, as a team.

7.) 16 Oct 2014
Thanks, just another wee question, see this 51 % fan ownership, is there a limit to how big a percentage a fan can own?

{Ed007's Note - the 51% is owned by the members (like Barca has it's members, it's not just rich fans buy up as many shares as they can), I think it costs 50 Euros a season to become a member at Dortmund, basically it would be like the Celtic Supporters Association owning 51% of our club and all decisions are made democratically by voting on matters, that's why so many ex-players are in positions like club President's etc, the fans vote on people who can prove they can do a job, not just because they work for Adidas they end up on the board.
Adidas and Allianz each own 9% of Bayern Munich (the largest single shareholdings) but when it comes to deciding how the club is run and major decisions they have no control over it, Adidas could buy the entire remaining 49% and have no greater power as the 50+1 will always have the majority so it is ultimately the members who decide what happens. Clubs in Germany can never be ran to suit any single person's agenda. This rule means it is impossible for a wealthy owner or company to buy out a club like has happened at Manchester United, Chelsea and Manchester City in the Premier League. There are two exceptions, Wolfsburg is owned by Volkswagen and Bayer Leverkusen is owned by the chemical company, Bayer but both those clubs clubs originated as works sporting clubs - and they must supply evidence to prove to the German FA that it is committed to helping the club, rather than themselves.
Back in 2011 it was ruled that sponsors with over 20 years’ involvement in a club could take majority shareholdings – though only with the consent of the members, of course. This was done as a response to the Chairman of Hannover, Martin Kind, who wanted to abolish ’50 + 1′. He was obviously unsuccessful so still democratic supporter ownership or at the very least supporter control remains a vital part of the fabric of German football.
As part-owners, fans have a far greater say in how their club is run. They have seats on the board and will appoint members to the club’s board who they feel will operate both with the clubs best interests but also the fans best interests at heart.
German sides also have a Fan Projeckt who meet regularly with club officials and local government to ensure that both the club and the fan get the best deal possible.}

8.) 16 Oct 2014
Sounds like a good system, but am a bit confused how it works, can individual supporters buy some of the 51%shares, or is the 51% just a kind of voting block, so the supporters association can have the final say in the running of the club?

{Ed007's Note - The 51% is just a block of votes, and if you pay your membership or buy a ST you get a vote, nobody has more than one vote. Dermot Desmond wouldn't be our majority shareholder, him and his billionaire buddies would fight over the 49% and be allowed to buy up shares (I'm sure they need fan approval as well) and all the CFC fans, from all over the world (Barca have over approx 200,00 members worldwide, they all get a vote on elections etc) pay a membership and are consulted on the running of the club. We wouldn't have Peter Lawwell just being hired by the board, there would be candidates put forward who would basically run a political campaign, an example being Joan Laporta was elected Barca president because he promised to sign Ronaldinho, when Florentino Perez took over as Real Madrid president from Ramon Calderon he wanted to stop the Ronaldo transfer and was blocked. Sorry I'm ranting lol
The supporters and board would put forward candidates who will campaign, telling fans their ideas for the club, we'll guarantee a £20 million transfer kitty per season, freeze season ticket prices etc etc to try ans win votes, every member would then vote on who they thought was the best man for the job and that's who would become our Chief Executive. Even if a Pedro lied his way through it and was voted in, he couldn't be say Desmoind's puppet or the members, who are the majority shareholders, have the power to change it.
Obviously there's a lot more to it and I don't know probably half of it but that's the general idea, and I used Barca as an example because they are set-up the same way and everyone knows about Barca, not everyone knows who Karl-Heinz Rummenigge is. I hope that's helped buddy.}

9.) 16 Oct 2014
The Germans seem to have a very good share ownership. It is the proper way to run a football league . This way keeps the con-men from all over the world coming together to buy out all the clubs .

10.) 16 Oct 2014
Thanks for the explanation, was it set up after the war,?KHR, if only someone of his ability was wearing the hoops today.

{Ed007's Note - It was only set up in 2001, the Germans decided they need change after the disaster at Euro2000, you might find thisan interesting read.}

11.) 16 Oct 2014
Very interesting article, especially about the youth academy's, it reminds me of what I said to two bears at the start of their first season 'why is mccoist bringing in all these new players, why does'nt he just play the young players, ', they did'nt have an answer, I hope RD turns out to be as good as he's supposed to be in bringing through the young players.

12.) 17 Oct 2014
17 Oct 2014 15:31:12
There you go ed ; the Germans play /and still do, Suubuteo.
I bet all their fans have a Subbuteo stadium somewhere around the house :-)
Viva the football revolution!
Viva Subbuteo!